| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| vb101 |
Posted - 04/21/2003 : 4:36:14 PM
rumor has it that next year's Monroe County high school winter season is going to be longer. it is in the works to have an intersectional tournament at the conclusion of the winter season, so that the winter girls can compete against the other 4 sections that have winter seasons.
methinks, there are going to be some interesting opinions about this. |
| 18 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| the shark |
Posted - 06/14/2003 : 7:51:10 PM
Smarter college coaches are not going to spend time going to high school matches to recruit. The level of competition is usually higher in club.
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The Shark
For a charm of powerful trouble, Like a hell broth boil and bubble. Double, double toil and trouble; Fire burn and (competitive) cauldron bubble. |
| VBCoach |
Posted - 06/12/2003 : 11:40:52 AM
That brings up a good question: Does anyone have some great ideas on fundraising? We are always looking to make the Junior Olympic experience a little less painful on the wallet. What fundraisers have you used that had great results??? |
| vb101 |
Posted - 06/11/2003 : 3:32:25 PM
Not sure why you think a longer season would provide more opportunity for colleges to see the girls play. From November through January, the majority of the college coaches are already free to do so. The colleges of this area, from Syracuse to Buffalo, already have a good idea of what is out here.
The teams and individuals that are likely to go on to an "intersectional meet" are also pretty well scouted, from our little section of the nation.
I'm pretty sure a longer season and an intersectional isn't going to spell more scouting opportunity.
I hope that it would mean greater skill development and team growth, but scouting, No.
Several clubs have dealt with the talented but financially strapped before. Some of them create "scholarships" or "payment plans" or "fund raise". The problem is that this creates an inequity. No matter how deserving an individual is, there are others, who are just as deserving, but find a way. In a large club it is easier to accomplish. The financial difficulties of a few are easier to mediate when the club does not face financial difficulties. Everything costs. And without too many clubs of this size around, the issue is problematic.
Where giving out the helping hand can be easily accomplished, however, is in a community setting. For example: A team, that emanates from a high school team, is a step or three ahead of many others. The teammates know each other, know their family and life situations and are more than likely to help each other out. They are a community, a family. This can also happen with a group that plays together over a 2 or 3 year period. Both of which are difficult to accomplish.
Most of the clubs attempt to keep prices down. They try to find inexpensive practice facilities, willing volunteer coaches, fund raising activities, & sponsorship.
Fact is, club ball costs. Discounting the coaching, gym fees, and uniform fees; there are always tournament & lodging fees. As we've discussed before, to get good and be seen, you have to take in the more prestigious tournaments. None of which are cheap.
So, what could you do? Some people have tried to take in all those talented but financially strapped kids and coach them through an abbreviated season. It is a difficult task, but every little bit of p. t. helps.
In my youth, Rochester was a baseball town. I and all my friends were baseball players. Then, something new appeared. Several Europeans began to flood our shores and they brought a love of another sport. It was cheap to play and we'd run around a lot, playing it, but we were still baseball players. Well, the other sport continued, the kids of those parents played and then had kids, who in turn played. Now, soccer thrives in Rochester. 20 years ago, it didn't. In many areas of the US, it still doesn't. All it took was a bunch of people who knew the game, encouraged the game and created more and more opportunities to play.
Some years ago, this happened with our sport as well. Beach volleyball blew up. We started with one 4th of July tournament a year and then graduated to tourneys every weekend, with several sponsors and a large core of players. A combination of aging players, poor weather conditions, the search for greater competition, water closings and a lack of new players saw the sport peter out and stabilize.
Why did the sport blow up in the 1st place? Well, it started with people getting other people involved & the big thing is that the sport was cheap. Kids in Greece, Hilton and Irondequoit would build nets venture down to Charlotte, Ontario Beach, buy a ball, and play beach doubles till the sun went down. It was a great way to get a tan, get in shape, play and socialize. There was already an adult base of players, who already enjoyed playing pick-up ball, and the young players would attempt to challenge them and take them down. A few college teams would be encouraged to play as much as they could throughout the summer & athletes from Brockport, RIT, U of R, & GCC would flood the beach with players. The level of play grew. It happened once, it will happen again.
So, take the bull by the horns my young friend, create those opportunities, as we all try to do, & maybe some years down the road, you can watch our sport thrive & know that you helped it happen.
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| statechamp8 |
Posted - 06/10/2003 : 1:47:13 PM
Is there any updates if the season is gonna be longer in the winter season. Id love to see it longer, gives more colleges the opportunity to see the girls play cause it would go on until the end of feburary. The only reason i say this, is theres alot of girls in this whole area of section 5 and Section 6 that do not play club at all. Id like to see more colleges looking at girls in the high school more and along w/ club. Is this a reality im not sure, but i wouldnt mind it.
I also wanna know is there any club program out there that has a solution to, you know of a very talented players that is intrested in playing club but u mention how much the cost is and they just look the other way for what ever reason, Anyone know what you can do to get the player to play club ball such as cost..? |
| the shark |
Posted - 05/29/2003 : 8:02:15 PM
If you want your players to be more competitive at the college level, then the season should be moved to the fall. New York volleyball is weak, compared to other states.
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Always be aggressive! |
| vb101 |
Posted - 05/27/2003 : 4:05:12 PM
Banged the nail on the head, to a certain extent.
It was about 10 years ago, when the coaches of the winter season in Rochester, decided to make their season end before the February break, so that they could enjoy the February break, without having to worry about practices and year end tournaments. Haven't you ever wondered why the girls basketball season lasts longer than the girls volleyball season?
The change to a shorter season was a trade off. It was good for club ball, not as good for high school ball. It forced high school winter volleyball into a situation where not enough time was available for a solid season. It became necessary to schedule matches and practices on Saturdays, whereas many Fall teams either have a tourney or the weekend off. There is virtually no preseason and not nearly the amount of development and practice time as is offered in the fall. Cuts are generally made within 3 days and teams have to compete within about a week. Whereas, fall teams get usually 2 weeks before school starts, usually double sessioning, before their 1st contest. Kids get a better chance to learn the game and achieve before cuts have to be made. And then there is Christmas break. The abbreviated season becomes more abbreviated and very hectic.
Maybe with the season at the same length as the basketball season, there won't be such a rush and winter teams won't have to worry too much about cramming it all in. Additionally, maybe there will also be a growth in the level of the kids' play, with more time for the coaches to teach and develop the ability of their players. So, there will be a switch back, a season of adequate length in the winter and a decrease in the length of club ball. There won't be any problem ending before spring seasons, but there will probably be an end to a February break for those athletes, just the same as for the basketball teams.
Basketball and volleyball athletes are virtually the same. Tall, quick, and strong, at least outside of the Rochester area. As is quite evident to anybody who journeys to a National Qualifier, where throughout most of the nation, volleyball is considered a top tier female sport; the girls are powerful and very well trained. A few years ago, last I looked, volleyball was the 2nd most recruited collegiate female sport in the nation and the 2nd most popular sport. I wonder if those figures have changed? |
| volleymom |
Posted - 05/27/2003 : 2:31:45 PM
Didn't I read something in the D&C; stating that ADs were talking about shortening all the sports seasons because of budget cuts? How are these extra games going to come about? Won't they cause problems for the girls that play a spring sport?
Tut made a point about ADs wanting to offer something to girls in the winter, but, what do all the other schools outside Monroe county offer their girls? Why do we have to be different? What about the girls that would like to play volleyball and basketball? The boys have that option, why don't the girls?
Coaches and officials aren't going to push to have this changed. Now, they have steady income for two seasons. It's in their best interest to keep things as they are. Parents can't do much. Believe me I've tried. The ADs don't want to hear from us! |
| vb101 |
Posted - 05/21/2003 : 3:18:29 PM
Can't stop thinking about it. 20 teams in the winter that we wouldn't have enough referees for in the fall. And yet with the large quantity of teams we have in the winter, going from what ammounts to 104 high school teams in the fall, to 124 seems like a drop in the bucket. If they play 2 or 3 nights a week, you'd need about 15 more refs, even accounting for the college teams. Modified teams are reffed by school affiliates.
What holds back the creation of more refs?
Phys Ed. Gym classes. I guess I'm a gym rat and that's where most of PE takes place, so "my bad" I guess I can work on my PC stuff a bit more. |
| 1stLibero |
Posted - 05/19/2003 : 4:32:00 PM
Thanks for the clarification ToolMan! :) |
| ToolMan |
Posted - 05/19/2003 : 08:31:16 AM
Physical Education is the curriculum that is being taught. Gym is where the class is being taught. Let's give all those P.E. teachers the respect they deserve! |
| Mike |
Posted - 05/19/2003 : 07:19:55 AM
quote:
Originally posted by 1stLibero
Phys. Ed. and Gym are the same thing. :)
Don't say that to any of the Physical Education teachers I know.
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I must be getting old, I remember side out scoring. |
| 1stLibero |
Posted - 05/18/2003 : 10:48:03 PM
I believe, Mr. Tut... that Phys. Ed. and Gym are the same thing. :) |
| Jtut |
Posted - 04/28/2003 : 3:45:54 PM
One thing people need to keep in mind is that athletic directors and school administrators have to make decisions based on providing opportunities for all students, not just a select few. Many Monroe County schools have field hockey, soccer, cross country, swimming and tennis in the fall. Winter has only volleyball, basketball, gymnastics, and if you want to count it cheerleading. While gym space may be more difficult to come by in the winter, volleyball greater sports opportunity for the entire student body then. From a purely volleyball standpoint, I agree a fall season makes a lot of sense. Those athletes that play JO's would get a much longer club season and the level of play for both club and high school ball would probably increase. To say that the coaches can change that is a bit of a stretch. Coaches can voice their opinions, but looking at it from an educational standpoint winter makes sense too. P.S. vb101 it is physical education, not gym class. |
| vb101 |
Posted - 04/27/2003 : 9:21:03 PM
Well, the winter season is a topic that calls for controversy. Although, many years ago, when girls sports were changed from 4 seasons to 3, and most of the Monroe County volleyball season teams consisted of soccer players, that is no longer true. Teams no longer consist of only soccer players. But there does seem to be a focus on keeping the winter season, in spite of all the great reasons to move the Monroe County teams to the fall with the majority of the state, to the winter.
Most recently, there is the the talk of changing the modified season for girls. Currently, it consists of 4 seasons, so kids can play soccer, volleyball, basketball, and a spring sport. But, word is, that a move is going on to increase the lengths of the girls modified volleyball and girls modified basketball seasons, creating only 3 seasons, where the girls will have to make a choice between volleyball and basketball at an earlier age. Obviously based upon the game that is presented to them in 5th and 6th grade gym classes, many more will choose basketball.
This will continue the process of effectively entrenching the winter season and change the opportunity for young female athletes to discover volleyball. No matter what we might say, basketball is more popular and there are more coaches of basketball than volleyball, so, the junior high recruiting to our sport is going to prove to be even more difficult. Moreover, volleyball and basketball athletes possess the same attributes, so the talent will continue to be diluted for both sports.
I understand that Monroe County has a shortage of officials, but that is curable. I also understand that Monroe County has a shortage of long term coaches, but there are a lot of young coaches in the wings waiting for their chances. There are also many, graduated young players, who could be officials waiting in the wings, if the process was less complicated. I understand, too, that some officials and coaches would like to be able to coach 2 seasons, for a love of the game and other reasons; but the excuse of lack of officials is old, particularly after the way so many of the officials are criticized, whether during the fall or winter season.
All of this is probably a moot point, however, as some people are currently actively pushing to make the winter season a continued reality.
As Irish alludes to, coaches could change this.
And State Champ, there are coaches available. Do you know any young, former players who might think they'd do a good job as a varsity coach somewhere, particularly after admiring the ability and experience of all those Varsity coaches around him? The kids are better off this way, eh?
Ah well, I agree with you, it won't change. But in the best interests of the kids it should. |
| statechamp8 |
Posted - 04/24/2003 : 01:39:57 AM
"I cannot believe that coaches would be that stubborn and mypoic not to see this" Irish just to let u know u arent the first person to think about everyone joining to the fall. This has been a on going topic for a long time, and will be very hard to do and i dont see it happening for a real long time. To add this tournament after the monroe county tourny is a step up from what we already had.
Sorry Irish its not that easy to switch a whole sport from winter to fall. First off we dont even have enough ref's to begin w/ in just the fall season add 30 more teams and were deff not gonna have enough ref's for the Fall, Second whos gonna Coach all thses teams, many coaches here in section V coach both fall season and winter season, so call us coaches stuburn for not wanting to switch, i have never heard a coach here say they wouldnt want to switch everything to the fall but reality is for the girls right now that are playing in the winter there better off, there getting more experianced coaches better offcials now and in monroe county playing the best competition around.. say we switched u would have to hire alot of new coaches and new ref's, that will most likly not have alot of experiance, that would not help are programs here in section V. Switching everything to Fall right now will never happen and i dont see it happening for a long time. Dont get me wrong id love to see every school in the state play in the fall but were a long way from now seeing that happen unless someone knows how to fix all the problems if we did.
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| Irish |
Posted - 04/23/2003 : 7:53:55 PM
It's not and never will be a State Tourney. Put pressure on your Sections and HS to switch so you rgirls can compete for a State title. They deserve that chance.
Where is the NYPHSAA?
The gyms are free in the fall. It is the best time to coach HS athletes and coupled with Club the elite athletes will get year round ball.
Switch from a lose/lose to a win/win.
It has to come from the parents and also coaches to put presure. I cannot believe that coaches would be that stubborn and mypoic not to see this.
It is even worse for the boys as 1 section elects to play in the winter and 2 others in the spring. First off their sections could care less and their coaches have stated that they coach other sports during the fall and don't want to switch. Selfish! But that is another problem for another day.
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| statechamp8 |
Posted - 04/23/2003 : 7:20:03 PM
I love the idea of the season being longer, it would be great for the girls to play something after the monroe county championship. One idea that should be considered is if we were to lengthen the season how about starting it a week later for the fall coaches that coach the winter to have a lil time in b/t and not be so rushed or also have to deal w/ 2 teams at a time. Any ways i love the idea and have been waiting for something like this for a while. Would there also be intersectional games besides tournys during the season? And also is the season getting longer or is it the same length season just adding the "state tourny"?
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| vb101 |
Posted - 04/23/2003 : 6:12:47 PM
Still nothing.
Well, if the winter season was longer, the kids would gain an opportunity to see more high school play, the season would probably last through and after February break and the matches would be less jammed in. There would continue to be little difficulty getting referees for winter matches and some coaches will continue to get double duty.
On another front, the winter season, a pet peeve with nearly the rest of the state and college scouts, would endure. Changing the kids from winter to fall would be less likely. This would not lead to the unification of our Volleyball teams in the fall, rather Monroe County will continue their winter league. There would then be two sets of state champions (one more recognized than the other). And the club seasons would be cut by those subsequent 3 weeks. Our winter volleyball athletes already start behind nearly everyone else and an even shorter club season is worth thinking about. What would that do to the kids?
Now, are there any opinions?
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