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Wlftrpp
New Member
27 Posts |
 Posted - 09/04/2008 : 8:13:18 PM
   
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Greetings from sunny (and freakin' hot) Southern Cali. Kind of a random topic for discussion, but I figured I would come to the "experts" on beach volleyball, such that you are. I figured I would come here first, since there is a pretty good number that gather here and I know/ remember some of you from my days in Rochester. (And I hope it's o.k. to post this here?)
Basically, I'm gathering intel on indoor volleyball clubs of the beach variety. I know that Hot Shots has added hard courts as well as basketball courts in the past few years, but I'm looking for input/ opinions on the "old school" style, back in the 90s when it was strictly sand courts.
For those of you who played beach on a regular basis, what did you like about Hot Shots, what did you hate about it? (If you played there, and if not, why not?) What would you change about Hot Shots if you could. Did any of you get involved in the leagues or was it more of a hang-out? For those of you who are coaches, would you take your indoor teams there to work-out or practice if it was available? Did any of you ever rent a court for your own games or a party? Did you all avoid the leagues because you felt they were too "recreational" and not enough of a challenge? (Were there advanced leagues there?)
Basically I'm looking for your thoughts, input, info. etc., on the Hot Shots experience.
Thanks.
Wolf
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Retired
Moderator
270 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2008 : 7:42:43 PM
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My understanding is that they used masonary sand because its cheaper. I think they regretted that ever since with the dust and hard clay like (not beach like) surface. I wont do negatives out of respect for alot of people i liked. The place had a good staff with few exceptions, which means people who were always players first and in business second. This may have changed but this was the initial draw I thiink of the place. Norman and Doug fresh as well as tut I think did alot for the place just by being there. The league people really liked and respected these people as well as Tim, Rick carl, terry corts and alot of others there from the start.
I think my first game there was with Dyminski vs Scott Davenport and Mike Carr before the bar was built.
Diane Kron Online | beach volleyball | Buffalo Bills Backer |
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bumpsetcrush
Moderator
236 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2008 : 12:12:19 PM
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| Hotshots is considering changing the sand, according to a recent article in the Democrat and Chronicle. I think that would be the single biggest improvement the facility could make. Probably annoy a lot of customers who have never played in real sand, too. I had a conversation with JB at one time when he said he started out with A, AA, B, BB, C leagues but everything pretty soon coalesced around advanced, intermediate and beginner. Most of the leagues play sixes, but some of them are fours. The D&C; article is available from the Google cache. Its not online at the D&C; anymore. |
Edited by - bumpsetcrush on 09/06/2008 12:15:36 PM |
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volleydad
New Member
38 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2008 : 1:07:37 PM
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| Hey Wolf, here’s my input. Hotshots has changed considerably over the years. I’ve been playing there for around 15 years now. Back in the day there were 6 courts, a small bar downstairs and beer and greasy fried food upstairs. Prices were reasonable and you could afford to play on more than one night a week if you wanted, and hang around for a few cold ones and a snack. The atmosphere was just different, people used to watch other games in their league if you were on court B or C, court A was recreational, nobody watched. There was more camaraderie between teams and it seems a friendlier atmosphere. When court A was removed and became the big bar, the place was never the same. They tried drawing a bar crowd that weren’t volleyball players and the feeling of having your own private volleyball club was gone forever. When they put in the hard courts and the restaurant that was the start of never ending price increases, it seems like, to pay for the empty hard court side. To join a volleyball league now is 435.00, or 43.50 a week for 1 team to play 3 games, or 48.00 if you don’t make playoffs. Add to that the drink/food prices and it is getting difficult to justify. |
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Wlftrpp
New Member
27 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2008 : 1:15:24 PM
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| Thanks for the input. If anyone else has thoughts they can add, I would appreciate them. I haven't been there in about 10 years, so I haven't seen most of the changes that people have mentioned, with adding the hard courts and increasing the bar size. I, too, remember it when it was just 6 sand courts and the small bar downstairs, tiny kitchen upstairs. I don't think I ever played league there, but I did stumble my way through a few King of the Court games on Friday nights and give Woody trouble at the bar. I'm trying to get a feel overall for what might have worked or what regular players didn't like as much. Consider it my own version of "market research." I think a similar set-up might work where I am at, but I think I'm looking at it in terms of the "old" Hot Shots, more for the people who play on a regular basis and less of a bar or hang-out type place (which is also why I asked about whether any coaches had ever taken their teams to Hot Shots to practice.) |
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volleyball1
Average Member
120 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2008 : 3:23:53 PM
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| My biggest issue with Hotshots is that it is not sand volleyball, it is dirt. It may have been sand at one point, but after years and years of sweat and spit it has taken on the physical properties of soil. I think the food and drink prices are reasonable, but it is expensive to play, especially when teams are always forfeiting matches. I had two league matches forfeited which amounts to over 10% of the season. There should be some sort of compensation for that, like maybe free beer. |
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Vballobserver
Senior Member
229 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2008 : 4:04:00 PM
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| sweat and spit, yechhh! next thing you'll be telling me about polish hankies or something. |
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otter6297
Senior Member
444 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2008 : 11:46:31 PM
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Wow... dredging up old memories. Remember that the 'original' hot shots only had three courts, they added D,E & F later. When it was three courts there were 15-20 nets on the beach weekends. It seemed to me that most of the serious beach players were looking to train or practice in sand somewhere when it was real late, or when the weather sucked. There was also Red Creek, who added a freezing dome in the winter, and Dreck's on Lexington Ave that had tournaments on off-NOVA weekends, and hosted the finals at their respective establishments.
A lot of us would show up at Hot Shots in the late evening, have a snack and adult beverage, wait for the leagues to funnel out, and then play or train for an hour or two. I also happened to be at opening day for the Cleveland version which was doomed because of a liquor license problem.
To me when the number of recreational players grew ... and the number of beach nets shrank ... there seemed to be a bigger market for 'rec' leagues that would pay good entry fees to play. Then, the more players in and out, the more there is to gain from charging a little more for food and drink, although the prices are still relatively safe.
The problem with coaches bringing their teams in to play is ... it's a bar. If you bring them in at the wrong time of night, or on the wrong evening they could be exposed to the 'adult' side of the Rochester volleyball scene (drinking, swearing, trash talking, etc.). Not saying I haven't contributed to that scene, just not sure it's always a great atmosphere for club or high school players. How do you explain it to parents if there is an 'incident' at the BAR you were practicing at? It was a little different when VFX rented out the hard court side, and distanced themselves from the bar, but that doesn't sound like what you are considering.
Lastly, you may want to ask some of the Syracuse guys about what happened at Spikes ??? |
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Retired
Moderator
270 Posts |
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Q
Moderator
558 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2008 : 7:03:13 PM
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Hey....he has been promoted since you last saw him...he is now "Sergeant Understatement!"
good thing I never contributed to that scene...you guys are such bad influences..... |
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Retired
Moderator
270 Posts |
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Q
Moderator
558 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2008 : 08:13:12 AM
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Hey retired....when are you coming up for a visit.....or are you still on the rochester's most wanted list?
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Jtut
Starting Member
44 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2008 : 4:40:50 PM
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| I was at Hot Shots for many years and pretty much from the beginning. It is always a balancing act between trying to keep the elite players happy while catering to the recreational players. The business model doesn't work if you run it as a non profit, unless you are just obscenely rich. There are lots more rec players than elite players and as a group they tend to have more disposable income. I am generalizing but all things that need to be kept in mind. I don't think I am spilling any corporate secrets but people tend to forget those things. The best thing was having people that loved what they did and cared about making the place a success. |
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Retired
Moderator
270 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2008 : 02:38:10 AM
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I had a feeling Tut would hit this thread. I had been told exactly what he said at least 30 times over a decade. The profit is not at the advanced levels, its just a simple game of numbers since its impossible to have more great players than starting out players in a common sense view. Also, I think the advanced players have always been a bit guilty of being cheap or broke or both, so that didnt help. :)
Im sure I wasnt the only one oblivious to how much work went on to keep this playground for Advanced players open on the back of rec leagues. I guess better late than never I learned to appreciate that fact.
I hope on the way I did enough to get people involved and learning to pull my own weight,...and Cheers Mr. Tuttle for all the work I probally didnt appreciate.
Diane Kron Online | beach volleyball | Buffalo Bills Backer |
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