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Witt
Junior Member
98 Posts |
 Posted - 10/15/2010 : 08:16:03 AM
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Last night Waterloo defeated Clyde-Savannah 20-25, 19-25, 25-20, 25-15, 25-23. Coach Jensen did a great job getting her team to comeback and play hard to dig out of the 2-0 hole. My team also never gave up and closed a game 5 17-23 deficit to 23-24. On the last play of the game Waterloo set opposite and our outside and middle went up and blocked the ball. The R2 ended the match by calling one of the blockers into the net. My players and I obviously disagreed with this call :) I never blame officiating for a loss. No one is trying to make mistakes including officials. Every point is game point. Missed calls even out. It is still very hard to lose a match on this type of call. Anyone have similar stories to share?
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VBCoach
Senior Member
364 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2010 : 08:43:25 AM
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as an official, coach, player and fan you have to remind yourself that there were 24 other mistakes made in the match so you cant focus on just one call that an official made.
Sounds like a great match, nothing better than driving out to Clyde for a 5 set match. ;)
Tell your girls to stop cheating by touching the net while blocking. |
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Kingofthehill
Senior Member
253 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2010 : 09:08:24 AM
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Once won a 5 set match 15-13 in the last set on the same thing, r2 calls blocker in the net. As the winning coach, it was less satisfying to win that way, but by NO MEANS was I unhappy with the win ....
So, tough one I know. Hard when the whistle blows on a crucial point though...for some reason we are "ok" (I use that loosely) with blockers in the net on the 2nd or 3rd point of the set.... |
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kevolley
Starting Member
22 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2010 : 09:42:08 AM
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| Look at it this way, if you call a net during the match why would you not call it at the end? Call it once you can't just ignore it later. |
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Witt
Junior Member
98 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2010 : 10:23:31 AM
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VBcoach- I agree we do need to get out of the net! :) Kevolley- There were 2 other times in the match he called someone in the net and the R1 called replay because she saw the other team. I would have been ok with the net call if we had touched the net on that play. The ball did hit the net after the block and the other team might have hit the net, but we didn't.
How about some instant replay? :) Im kidding!
We will go work on our other 24 mistakes so that if we get this situation in sectionals it won't cost us!!! |
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rochvball
Moderator
508 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2010 : 10:34:49 AM
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| Find it interesting how a player called for a net seldom thinks he/she made contact with the net. |
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jayray
Starting Member
9 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2010 : 9:11:19 PM
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| Good players make mistakes. Great players admit them! |
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Kingofthehill
Senior Member
253 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2010 : 10:09:05 PM
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I just talked to one of the most respected officials of the area tonight. He had GREAT perspective. In an average 5 set match there are 400 decisions that an R1 has to make. If they make 4-5 terrible calls in that match, then they are still at 99%. Wow-- can I expect more than 99% from a human being? No. I think that is pretty solid.
Now some refs are better than others, I'm thankful that the new ones are out there giving it a shot and hopefully one day they will be the respected ones with great perspective.
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Pcoach
New Member
19 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2010 : 5:43:08 PM
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Please....400 calls? Maybe 10 years ago. Today I only hear a whistle when the ball hits the floor. And even then they have unpaid line judges making the call. I can't even get a whistle on 4 hits sometimes (ok only twice this year).
That being said, if the C-S player was clearly at fault then by all means blow the whistle. What I hate is when certain violations are allowed for the entire game and then whistled with the match on the line. Case in point:
We are playing the last team on our schedule with a shot at stopping an undefeated regular season. The opposing coach is on the R1 the whole night: moaning, hand signals, waving the calls off, approaching the court and making carry gestures. In set 5 their setter butchers a set (behind her head outside the antennae and throws it forward. I yell "COME ON" and I get a red card. It was loud, but in light of the how the rest of the game was "controlled" I will never be convinced that I deserved it. ( we were up 12-9 but it completely stopped the flow of the game...... R2 didn't know how to administer it on the scoresheet... and it was the only loss of the regular season).
So let's close that 400 down to 40-50 tight calls, and if they blow 4-5, then yes I expect a varsity official to be right more than 87-90% of the time. |
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Kingofthehill
Senior Member
253 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2010 : 7:02:49 PM
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Not 400 calls, 400 decisions. Misread me there.
For example:
Ref: (thinking) Was that a double? Nah I'll let it go. Oh, was that a carry? Yup. (blows whistle). ----2 decisions
Ref: (thinking) Was that four hits or did the blocker touch it? Touch, play on. Wait, was that a double? No, hard hit first ball. Was she a backrow attacker? Nope, foot was behind the line, play on. Did that ball hit her hand then the pin or was it off the pin from the attacker first. Attacker. (blows whistle). ----- 4 decisions.
So let's not close that 400 down to 40-50.
If you want to say they make 40-50 whistles that stop play, that is probably more like 25 I'd say, hands calls is even lower. But if it is actually a good referee that you also think is good, then your beef is more with the updated rules than with the official themselves. Remember, whoever is making these rules updates is interested in seeing the game play itself out, not have the ref blow the whistle all the time. It's just the way that it works. Long rallies, they want the kids to play it out.
Reading over your post, it seems like the other coach was upset with the non-calls on your setter? And then they didn't call one on their setter? Just trying to get the story right. If that is the case, then the ref wasn't calling hands....so weren't they consistent in that? Not sure, again, just trying to read your post carefully to get the story. Maybe it was their coach was made about the doubles being called on their setter during the match as well. That would make more sense.
Either way, it seems like it was the refs decision to give you a red card and not reprimand the other coach that seems to be the problem. I know I've been given cards this year that I couldn't believe. So I definitely feel you on that one.
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otter6297
Senior Member
444 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2010 : 10:29:10 PM
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Of the 400 decisions how many are close or judgement? We want them to be correct 99% of the time on the close ones... No coach has an issue with a ref that has consistently sound judgement and a thorough knowledge of the rules. The issue we have is that sommmmme refs change their level of all from play to play and do not have a thorough understanding of the rules... (Ex. back row attack, a legal tip or dump, overlap, etc.) forget regular judgement calls...
Reffing is difficult, but the refs these days need to recognize that as club volleyball grows they are now reffing a match that could have 6 or 7 certified R2's playing in the match. So if an official doesn't know the rule, or if their mechanics are poor, or if their explanation of a call is absurd, there is a good chance that there are 20 people watching that know it (coaches, players and parents). How uncomfortable is that?
Unfortunately, through time, the kids recognize the refs and 'prepare' for the level of reffing...
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Kingofthehill
Senior Member
253 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2010 : 08:21:16 AM
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| True. |
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VBCoach
Senior Member
364 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2010 : 09:02:06 AM
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now wouldnt it be interesting if officials could question the job that coaches are doing???
You could see a few calls yelled across the court from a stand like:
- 8 serves missed? really?
- she cant serve, why are you letting her in?
- wow, a 6 person serve receive, who does that?
- thats 7 points in a row, call a time out already...
- seriously, this late in a season and you dont know your rotation yet?
- 85 kills in a 3 set match? great stat keeping!! (that one is for Witt) :)
Please keep in mind that you are teaching kids more than a game, other traits are being developed and passed along like respect, honesty, and integrity. The officials are working hard to create new officials, continue to train experienced ones and maintain the top talent just like coaches are doing. We all make mistakes, its part of the game, the one who makes the least amount wins. |
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bystander
Junior Member
72 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2010 : 10:36:32 AM
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| Thanks VBCoach...Couldn't of said it any better myself!! My only question is where are all these players after they get through school...why don't they become officials? They would be so much easier to train than someone that knows very little to nothing about volleyball. |
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Witt
Junior Member
98 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2010 : 1:35:35 PM
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True story VBCoach. :) Or how about "11-24 and you are calling a time out? Really?"
We lost "ON" a questionable call, not "BECAUSE" of a questionable call. And I always make it a point to the players that the officials are all trying their best too, and don't want to make mistakes. Plus this official knew the rules and was in position. He was doing everything right. Also there was most likely a ball earlier in the set that was called in for us that was actually out or something, or a time we touched the net that no one saw it.
And bystander is right, we need more former players to ref, and to coach. |
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otter6297
Senior Member
444 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2010 : 11:08:21 AM
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Fair points... Guess you could say the good coaches know the less than good refs very quickly and the good refs know the less than good coaches quickly as well.
VBCoach... you keep making arguments like that I am going to ask you to change your username to VBRef... what side are you on? Sheeesh! |
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VBCoach
Senior Member
364 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2010 : 11:26:41 AM
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i am able to see Both sides of the coin..... (dumb ref pun)
im getting too old, fat and slow to play and coach so reffing it is..... :) |
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otter6297
Senior Member
444 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2010 : 12:54:06 PM
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| Are you saying refs are old, fat and slow?? Let the record note I DID NOT SAY IT... |
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kevolley
Starting Member
22 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2010 : 1:34:02 PM
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| Never take it out on the officials for following the rules. Take it up with the NCAA who put to much judgement into the hands of the official |
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Pcoach
New Member
19 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2010 : 1:51:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kingofthehill
Not 400 calls, 400 decisions. Misread me there.
For example:
Ref: (thinking) Was that a double? Nah I'll let it go. Oh, was that a carry? Yup. (blows whistle). ----2 decisions
Ref: (thinking) Was that four hits or did the blocker touch it? Touch, play on. Wait, was that a double? No, hard hit first ball. Was she a backrow attacker? Nope, foot was behind the line, play on. Did that ball hit her hand then the pin or was it off the pin from the attacker first. Attacker. (blows whistle). ----- 4 decisions.
So let's not close that 400 down to 40-50.
If you want to say they make 40-50 whistles that stop play, that is probably more like 25 I'd say, hands calls is even lower. But if it is actually a good referee that you also think is good, then your beef is more with the updated rules than with the official themselves. Remember, whoever is making these rules updates is interested in seeing the game play itself out, not have the ref blow the whistle all the time. It's just the way that it works. Long rallies, they want the kids to play it out.
Reading over your post, it seems like the other coach was upset with the non-calls on your setter? And then they didn't call one on their setter? Just trying to get the story right. If that is the case, then the ref wasn't calling hands....so weren't they consistent in that? Not sure, again, just trying to read your post carefully to get the story. Maybe it was their coach was made about the doubles being called on their setter during the match as well. That would make more sense.
Either way, it seems like it was the refs decision to give you a red card and not reprimand the other coach that seems to be the problem. I know I've been given cards this year that I couldn't believe. So I definitely feel you on that one.
Calls, decisions, guesses,... it is all symantics isn't it? My only point was that compared to ten years ago, they don't have to make many calls/decisions because so much more is legal. My only "beef" is with the official that is ok with making "4-5 terrible calls a night."
And just to clarify, I didn't have a problem with the way the R1 was calling the game. It was the fact that the R1 allowed the opposing coach to ride him/her all night and in game 5 card me for yelling "come on."
By the way VBcoach and Otter6297... Great points!! I officiated for 10 years before coaching and I know it isn't easy.... I just don't want to get too soft on them! |
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VBCoach
Senior Member
364 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2010 : 2:26:26 PM
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| ok otter, i am getting older, fatter, and slower. Age is creeping up on me (as it will be you in another couple of days) and i get a little winded climbing up the stand. |
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DSR
Starting Member
8 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2010 : 1:13:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Pcoach
quote:
Originally posted by Kingofthehill
Not 400 calls, 400 decisions. Misread me there.
For example:
Ref: (thinking) Was that a double? Nah I'll let it go. Oh, was that a carry? Yup. (blows whistle). ----2 decisions
Ref: (thinking) Was that four hits or did the blocker touch it? Touch, play on. Wait, was that a double? No, hard hit first ball. Was she a backrow attacker? Nope, foot was behind the line, play on. Did that ball hit her hand then the pin or was it off the pin from the attacker first. Attacker. (blows whistle). ----- 4 decisions.
So let's not close that 400 down to 40-50.
If you want to say they make 40-50 whistles that stop play, that is probably more like 25 I'd say, hands calls is even lower. But if it is actually a good referee that you also think is good, then your beef is more with the updated rules than with the official themselves. Remember, whoever is making these rules updates is interested in seeing the game play itself out, not have the ref blow the whistle all the time. It's just the way that it works. Long rallies, they want the kids to play it out.
Reading over your post, it seems like the other coach was upset with the non-calls on your setter? And then they didn't call one on their setter? Just trying to get the story right. If that is the case, then the ref wasn't calling hands....so weren't they consistent in that? Not sure, again, just trying to read your post carefully to get the story. Maybe it was their coach was made about the doubles being called on their setter during the match as well. That would make more sense.
Either way, it seems like it was the refs decision to give you a red card and not reprimand the other coach that seems to be the problem. I know I've been given cards this year that I couldn't believe. So I definitely feel you on that one.
Calls, decisions, guesses,... it is all symantics isn't it? My only point was that compared to ten years ago, they don't have to make many calls/decisions because so much more is legal. My only "beef" is with the official that is ok with making "4-5 terrible calls a night."
And just to clarify, I didn't have a problem with the way the R1 was calling the game. It was the fact that the R1 allowed the opposing coach to ride him/her all night and in game 5 card me for yelling "come on."
By the way VBcoach and Otter6297... Great points!! I officiated for 10 years before coaching and I know it isn't easy.... I just don't want to get too soft on them!
Unfortunately, it sounds like your reputation preceded you that night.
I don't think everyone understands your "unbridled enthusiasm". |
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