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otter6297
Junior Member
74 Posts |
 Posted - 02/04/2003 : 5:22:11 PM
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Seems as though we just READ your thesis.
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vb101
Average Member
107 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2003 : 10:57:37 PM
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Otter, do you have the crazy idea, that perhaps I write too much about the game. Heavens to murgatroid. I've never been known to pontificate & become too wordy. Not me. Never. Well..., perhaps once in a while.
Volleychic
Fairport's weakness is the same as most of the squads. Strong, consistent serving can take each and every MC squad out of their game. With bad passing, the opposites and middles are eliminated from side-out offense & the outsides become over relied upon, or a team provides free ball after free ball. Few of the outside hitters are potent enough to handle a squad committing to them. At times Tanck and Gustafson have risen to the occasion and have been tremendous, but most squads have much more diversified offenses, & being forced into "out of system passing" can limit their ability to distribute & attack the ball.
It seems as though having one or two servers "on" for a short time, (stringing 5 or 6 serves together) has been enough to cause most squads trouble. However, too many squads have become unagressive (a lot of lollipop serves), either just getting it in, serving inefficiently to an area (opponent passers don't have to move), or serving powerfully, but inconsistently. Also, some kids have taken to jump serving, but the jump serves don't have as much pop & seem to be for the most part rolled in (relying on the impressiveness of the feat to unnerve nervous passers). Passing seems to have become a forgotten skill, as several groups are attempting to receive serves with their hands, without, however, moving their feet, & are letting balls pass them by without exerting the effort to follow the ball out & play it if it is close.
Another weakness has been in adjustability. Squads, this year, are terribly vulnerable to momentum. A few errors seem to quickly erode confidence, & few teams can rally themselves, change strategy, or tactics, & rise above (the teams that win are more successful than most, but still far too frequently, it is the serving teams unforced errors that bail them out). Take any team out of their comfort zone (successfully defend against option A), & plan B comes across with less confidence. Offenses are predictable, and the bail out tip, or set the ball into a corner play is just a whisker away.
If a team can serve effectively, any squad can lose to any other squad. In Fairport's case, however, easier said than done.
And yet, all of the above, can also be said of most levels of play. Serving, passing, & the ability to side-out are cornerstones of success in this game.
To conclude (I can hear you cheering Otter), Fairport doesn't have any weaknesses that aren't also consistent with their competition. Moreover, their camaraderie, maturity, experience playing together, & season of success has inspired them to believe in one another & as is evident continue their winning ways.
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It seems as though having one or two servers "on" for a short time, (stringing 5 or 6 serves together) has been enough to cause most squads trouble. However, too many squads have become unagressive (a lot of lollipop serves), either just getting it in, serving inefficiently to an area (opponent passers don't have to move), or serving powerfully, but inconsistently. Also, some kids have taken to jump serving, but the jump serves don't have as much pop & seem to be for the most part rolled in (relying on the impressiveness of the feat to unnerve nervous passers). Passing seems to have become a forgotten skill, as several groups are attempting to receive serves with their hands, without, however, moving their feet, & are letting balls pass them by without exerting the effort to follow the ball out & play it if it is close.
Another weakness has been in adjustability. Squads, this year, are terribly vulnerable to momentum. A few errors seem to quickly erode confidence, & few teams can rally themselves, change strategy, or tactics, & rise above (the teams that win are more successful than most, but still far too frequently, it is the serving teams unforced errors that b |
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Barre
New Member
20 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2003 : 12:34:48 PM
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VB101
I think your analysis, long though it may be, is accurate, particularly concerning this overall area's ball control. By and large, it still could be a lot better, including (I know this will upset people) Fairport's. There are a number of girls on that team that can be "served to the bench," but the appalling lack of focus on serve with most teams I've observed keeps that from happening. Most of these teams are susceptible to strings of quickly lost points BECAUSE they are still (even the better teams) giving up WAY to many points due to shanks or because they hadto send over a freeeball resulting from a bad pass. Any team with a"decent" attack and who can serve effectively will do damage in the playoffs AND can beat anyone in this pool. However, like you, I really haven't seen anyone who has shown that they have the ability to do that to Fairport, who has enough firepower to punish a team that sends over anything but heat.
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OH13
Average Member
133 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2003 : 11:03:43 PM
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hmmm looks like my money is safe so far...17-0 and still kicking u know what.
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mcq1
New Member
40 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2003 : 10:40:18 AM
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It would be even better if you had some money to lose in this bet.
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Barre
New Member
20 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2003 : 11:03:34 AM
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quote:
quote:
It would be even better if you had some money to lose in this bet.
Yeah. I guess you have to admire a guy who, no matter how many times he's been wrong, no matter how many times he's lost bets, just keeps on talking that trash. Let's see now:
The Victor boys (also undefeated...for awhile) we're definitely going to give Eden a serious run for their money, if not beat them. OH13 would've lost his shirt on that one.
Then, life savings were bet on the undefeated Victor girls winning states. They didn't even make the finals.
Now, NOBODY has even a rat's ass chance in hell of knocking off undefeated Fairport (since, it seems, all the other teams, as OH13 so eloquently put it, "Suck." I wonder if the Fairport girls wouldn't want OH13 to jump off their band wagon. He might be bad luck.
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borovball3
Starting Member
0 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2003 : 12:44:20 PM
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haha
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vbchick1
Starting Member
5 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2003 : 1:05:00 PM
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Now youve jumped in on the "speaking for Fairport" thing, huh?
OH13 is a great person. Just cause he was wrong before doesn't mean that he is this time.. maybe he's right...
Fairport has pretty good ball control. But more importantly everyone on the team is there for each other. When the ball is shanked...which happens... another player is there to pick them up. No one is left feeling alone, and at fault when they play. For a team that works their "butts" off, they have finally learned what really counts in a high school sport. It's not winning, it's not ball control, and it's definately not making the least mistakes...walking away from a game, the best, the worst, the winner, the loser..it's all about attitude. Too many teams are still worried about winning.
Fairport is a classy team in my opinion. Fairport is yet to yell through the net at people. They worry about their own side of the court, not the other. For Example, Fairport just played Churchville in Quarter Finals where a player on the Churchville team was yelling across the net, and they screamed out of control for a jump serve to throw the server off. Fairport doesn't scream through the net or try to throw the server. They call their touches and are honest when the ball lands in. They play the game, and they play it with respect for the other team.
Fairport is only the topic because they are winning, so pick them apart, try to take them down...it won't work.
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Barre
New Member
20 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2003 : 2:20:25 PM
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I have no doubt Fairport is filled with classy players (based on comments from vbchick and HilDank AND their success). The reason your team is a hot topic is that, like it or not, you are on the hot seat: going into the playoffs undefeated and top seed. Yeah, attitude is of ultimate importance, but if you don't desperately want to win and be counted as the best, well...then there are plenty of other (and less competive) arenas in life where you can present proper attitude. If Fairport works as hard as you say it does, and is as "tight" as you say, then its ultimate goal better be to win the whole darn thing. If that's not the goal then package up the trophies and declare every team a winner now. to say otherwise means you're just feeling the pressure of overwhelming expectations. That's ok. It's normal. If you're the best, you'll do it.
Secondly, the comments about OH13 were meant in jest. He seems like a pretty good guy (and a good player,I've heard). However, he has managed (I hope in jest) to place nearly every other team in the "sucks" catagory in some post or another. Speaking for Fairport? Never.
Relax...and go win your sectional title. For the record, I'm going with Fairport against anybody (in the finals) in 4 games. The only way I see them struggling is if they drop the 1st game in a late playoff match (semis or finals). Not having had to play from behind much at all this year, it is always uncertain how a team would react in that emotional situation.
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vb101
Average Member
107 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2003 : 3:49:22 PM
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I've never really taken the "my team is good in comparison to..." too seriously. It is great to support you and yours against all comers. Whether a player plays for Penfield, a Pittsford school, or elsewhere. They're just crowing with pride for their team. The Fairport girls, however, haven't spoken out of turn & they're not the only ones. They've been polite, as was mentioned before. Some of their fans, well... that's what makes this interesting. The Victor & Fairport kids have been tight for many years, playing in leagues and going to camps together and etc... And that's a good thing. They would be supporting each other, even if Fairport wasn't having their success. In the girls' threads, in spite of some, from time to time, controversy, the deliberations have been mild in comparison to the boys' season. And that's a good thing, too.
As I've written before, the time for talk is done. Play on.
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vbchick1
Starting Member
5 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2003 : 5:01:48 PM
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Fairport's goal IS to win and will go for it with everything they have. The Seniors most of all want the "Monroe County" title more than anything, but not if it means playing unfair. What's the pride in cheating a team out of a win? There are too many teams this year that have lost the class in their game.
You stated "but if you don't desperately want to win and be counted as the best, well...then there are plenty of other (and less competive) arenas in life where you can present proper attitude." So cheat? Be Dishonest? As long as you win...you're the best? If I lie about every ball that is touched on a block and get ten points out of it and I win...am I the best? I'm not sure thats how you meant it but that's how I read it.
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mcq1
New Member
40 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2003 : 5:09:47 PM
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quote:
In the girls' threads, in spite of some, from time to time, controversy, the deliberations have been mild in comparison to the boys' season. And that's a good thing, too.
Of course the girl's "deliberations" were much milder. All us guys are still posting even though it's your season.
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js2sy12
Starting Member
0 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2003 : 8:53:36 PM
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Barre...Fairport does know how it is to come back from being behind. In their first match against Penfeild, they lost...I guess they didn't like that feeling and came back and crushed them for the next three...
vbchick1...I think that you're right in saying Fairport has good ball control, Even tho Fairports setter is good enough to set any pass, #6 is to thank for Fairports passes, she is one of the best passers, and Hilary Dank is not far behind...
Go win...
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OH13
Average Member
133 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2003 : 9:04:20 PM
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at this point i think fairport just needs to play decent to win. dont let a bad team get up on them. if they do that they should be in cruise control
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sims
Starting Member
1 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2003 : 9:53:34 PM
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ash is an awsome passer!
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raider1
Junior Member
75 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2003 : 11:01:54 PM
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quote:
Fairport's goal IS to win and will go for it with everything they have. The Seniors most of all want the "Monroe County" title more than anything, but not if it means playing unfair. What's the pride in cheating a team out of a win? There are too many teams this year that have lost the class in their game.
You stated "but if you don't desperately want to win and be counted as the best, well...then there are plenty of other (and less competive) arenas in life where you can present proper attitude." So cheat? Be Dishonest? As long as you win...you're the best? If I lie about every ball that is touched on a block and get ten points out of it and I win...am I the best? I'm not sure thats how you meant it but that's how I read it.
vbchick. Where did you get the idea that Barre is referring to "cheating??" I didn't get that at all?? Who said anything about cheating?
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vb101
Average Member
107 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2003 : 12:14:20 AM
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Y'know, I may have been a tad misunderstood here. I responded to a question of Fairport's weaknesses with an analysis of a weakness of the league (which nearly all of the teams share). Barre then clarified the point. Obviously, Fairport has arguably the best ball control of these 2003 Monroe County Leagues, as they have often proven. The point I made, is that Fairport hasn't been challenged enough by sharp serving, nor really have many teams. It is incomprehensible to me that, let's say Miss Cottengim is known to be a good passer, & then she gets the opportunity to pass the ball. Why are team's serving her? Where's the strategy in that? Not all passers are equal in ability, & there are surely a lot of holes and seams in that 30 by 30 space.
To say that a team digs better than they pass isn't unusual. Passing is one of volleyball's most difficult skills to master, which explains the "hand receiving" rule change. Let's have more good passes, so we have more banging and roofing at the net, by making it easier (let's not worry about doubles or slop, just get it to the setter, by using your hands to push it there). Which also explains the advent of the libero. (Let's have those talented passers on the floor more). The skill of passing is necessary for the net play.
Over the last few years, Rochester girls have become more and more potent hitters. The offensive skills are more spread out, & several squads have more than one banging hitter. It wasn't too long ago, perhaps a dozen years, where volleyball was won and lost by passing and serving & attacking was a "moot" point. Shanks didn't occur as much as they do today, & serving was tougher.
Me, I guess I'd like to see the serving & passing game coalesce with the net play & see Rochester churn it out at another level. The game is really fun, when the power and skill flow as one, and audiences are "on their feet" waiting for the next exceptional play. Me, I look forward to those electric moments, seeing which squad will blink & which squad will rise to success.
So, therefore, I want the skill & the ability to teach it to rise all over. I want the matches to wilt the unwary. I want the game to live & I want the kids to have the greatest time playing it...and continue playing it, in college, as an adult, & as a fan.
The odds still vastly favor Fairport. Enuff said, just a few days left, savor them.
Oh, & yes, trying to distract the jump server is unnecessary & surely doesn't need to be done & is considered by many as a form of bad sportsmanship (Myself included). When that stuff first started occuring, some refs red-carded it. Yet, if you get to a higher collegiate level, it won't be the players on the court that will be the most distracting, it will be the fans (& just like in collegiate basketball when players are taunted at the free throw line, servers get it). In Europe, they bang and rattle things, too, the noise can become deafening in those small city gyms. And just as honorable players won't taunt & as some honorable players will declare a touch, some won't. I recall several years ago when a good men's collegiate team from here, went to Cali, & called their touches, the Californian's were shocked. The Men's team were told that that was the ref's job, not the players. I still have trouble with it, I call my touches (even the micros), others do not, but there are times when because of other things, I know it is unfair to my team. I truly believe the problem would be solved if we had paid linespeople, instead of JVers, or fans, who more than likely will miss things, doing a task they are unqualified for (being a good linesperson isn't easy). But, now, in semis, those refs are there. Think about it. I know I'd probably still call my touch, but I can understand why some may not.
"...Bad team get up on them..." Sigh. I tell ya. You boys...
one, and audiences are "on their feet" waiting for the next exceptional play. Me, I look forward to those electric moments, seeing which squad will blink & which squad w |
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coachcharles
Starting Member
8 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2003 : 01:50:30 AM
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so, i was thinking about this whole "talking through the net" business. i think that is a fun part of the game. but let me explain. i do not talk trash to people i do not know personally. there is a clear line that i do not cross over when i do talk trash. i have been playing against some of my best friends for the past 5 years. we talk at each other through the net, challenging each other, poking fun. and when the match is over, win or lose, we walk off as friends. the trash stays on the court, because that was all it was, 'trash'. perhaps it is one of those things that you only understand if you've done it before, and i'm sure many of you do know what i'm saying. some of us (maybe it's a small circle) think it can be fun, when done right. and please, make sure you read this post carefully before responding, cause i don't wanna hear anyones crap about how trash talking is always bad, cause there are those of us think it isn't and it can be fun. plus, i thought i'd give the other side of thought on this subject.
oh yeah, and let it be known that when i went out to the Olympic High Performance camp in Colorado, i called a touch on myself during a scrimmage, and George Romain called a time out to throw me around and yell at me for it. that sucked. but i do give the honor call when it is needed. it's a classy move.
See you in April |
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coachcharles
Starting Member
8 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2003 : 01:52:34 AM
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| i just wrote way too much. i'm done for a while. |
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vbchick1
Starting Member
5 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2003 : 3:07:54 PM
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"but if you don't desperately want to win and be counted as the best, well...then there are plenty of other (and less competive) arenas in life where you can present proper attitude."
To me not calling your touches is cheating. Deperately wanting to win, should still mean playing it right. To me where it was said that there are plenty other less competitive places to present proper attitude is showing that as long as it is competitive you can not call your touches or yell through the net, because as long as it is competitive who cares how you treat the other team. you should always present proper attitude, there are no excuses.
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vbchick1
Starting Member
5 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2003 : 3:16:15 PM
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As for talking through the net to friends, that is different. That is poking fun at a friend that probably at one point or another you have played with. They know you are joking around and can just walk away from it. When it is someone you have never met or talked to it is a completely different situation. It may be fun with friends, but it is rude to treat people you don't know in that manner.
VB101, if passing is so difficult and passing and defense is so very important, why is it that it never gets the credit. It's who puts the ball away that gets all the credit of a win.
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js2sy12
Starting Member
0 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2003 : 3:36:33 PM
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who is to say what is the most important part of the game, if it wasn't for good passes, there could be no sets or hits, if it weren't for the sets there would be no hits, if it weren't for the hits, there would be no points. No one position is more important than another, yes some get more recognition than others, but like so many other sports, volleyball is a team game...
tongiht should be some good games...
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